In defense of Tilke

"Menebrio" (menebrio) 10/24/2013 at 17:43 • Filed to: F1, Safety, Circuit design

0

9

In days past I would've agreed with you !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Drivers and Fans love good racing, they love flowing circuits that stress test the driver and car. But you see, there is (unfortunately at times) a line where driver and fan safety has to be drawn. And mostly its due to new regulations that modern circuit design is boring, or as Anthony Davidson recently stated "...'pathetic' due to the vast expanses of run-off."

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

You see, when asked to design COTA, Tilke got a request from the crazy Texan cowboy [Tavo Hellmund] to basically put every single memorable corner from the European circuits into one, because in Texas everything is larger than life & after all, this was not just another circuit, it was to be the Circuit of the Americas.

Speaking to F1 Fanatic at COTA last week Epp said FIA track regulations made it impossible to recreate corners like Eau Rouge.

You see, cars get a lot of the credit when it comes to driver safety. Yes these machines have evolved to play an active role in reducing the impact the driver suffers. But we have forgotten to praise the passive role of the barriers. I do agree with Davidson's view on "driver punishment", but it's an unfortunate result of the plight by drivers and fans for safety.

(Canada's old style circuit almost proofed fatal in 2007, when Kubica bounce off & between the walls like a ping pong ball and across the circuit, while luckily avoiding contact with the passing cars)

Epp admitted a degree of frustration that modern tracks were compared unfavourably with older circuits which were built to less exacting standards but said: “on the other hand… people want the safety”.

“So when !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! died, for example, or when any of these Formula One idols die people question a lot, and they say ‘what happened, what went wrong, what can we do better?’ So they worked on the car and we worked on the track so that’s what happened the last 20 years, really a track evolution and making it much safer for the drivers.”

Designers and the FIA have been at a constant battle between creating the ultimate and fastest machine or ensuring driver safety. And there is one that advances faster than the other, because safety is mostly a reactive measure, a measure is put in place after the "fact." Maybe it's time for the whole of Motorsport to invest more in circuit safety, get some of those speedy minds to work together, to allow future circuit designers to have some of the free flow "freedoms" they enjoyed back in the day.

Of-coarse we can't forget that given that the sport is a money churning machine Tilke also has to 'develop a turn-key venue." I guess that is also why we get circuits like Yas Marina.

F1.com Why track safety comes first

(Source and for a more complete interview go to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! )

Grindintosecond > Menebrio 10/24/2013 at 17:55

1

My ultimate track design starts with a flat run right into a copy of a reverse right left Eau Rouge and then has a straight into the Monza Curve deLesmo two rights, then after a slight right curve downhill it leads into the right left right of Lime Rocks first 3 corners, but again reversed to a left right left, then a blast into deep woods for a real backstraightleading to a Reverse Parabolica right into a big wiiiide pavement hairpin and a downhill to the finish line wherre it flattens out as you cross and then to the backwards Eaurouge.....hell yeah.

I agree with this. there are constants that track design and car design cannot ever remove from racing. Car failure of any kind. they try to tether wheels, but a hard enough hit and it detaches no matter what. You can create giant runoffs but give enough damage to the car already in place and it's airborne having ramped the wing or another car into a roll. you can only do so much and now they have speed limits (not official but there's a reason NASCAR isn't qualifying at 212mph anymore and neither is indycar doing 241.) the track can't solve those problems, the car can't solve those problems. We can minimize mass injury, but driver injury/death can only be mitigated to a point.

Where is the top speed flat out 5g right hand corner? We can make giant runoff areas and still have an engaging track for spectators and TV alike. The biggest issue is the absolutely silly belief that Chicanes and Hairpin exits to drag race straights are the answer. It does nothing but separate cars close and space them out for the straight where at the end a braking manuver must be tried....this led to what? boredom...and DRS! so now they can pass ON the straight. However if they ust took out that hairpin before or that chicane before they would'nt have that problem. Why is there a chicane at Monza before the big right? they were too fast and the runoff was dangerous. Time to move that fence back and pave the runoff because there's not spectators back there anyway.....let em friggin run that turn at max speed. That's what we want in racing.

no...too fast...too fast.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Menebrio 10/24/2013 at 17:59

0

But let me pose a quick question?

Is all of this really the track's fault? Or are we to blame for making the cars too fast?

I love F1 in its current state just like all high speed ventures. But what if you had 70s and 80s F1 cars on the same track? Or better yet, what about WTCC or V8 Supercars? If we put them on the same track is it still as dangerous? I would think most of the time no.

Now, I don't want to force F1 to slow down. But we also can't deem every track unworthy simply because F1 cars are too fast for it, while every other automotive series runs just fine on the track.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > Menebrio 10/24/2013 at 22:25

1

One of Tilke's main detractors' point is the tight corner->long straight->hairpin at the end. I agree. These were designed prior to DRS and their reasoning (and one would say mandate from the powers-that-be) was that the current dirty air problem made getting close to the car in front difficult when following through sweeping corners. This was a major problem and F1 has been trying to battle it, by focussing on the wrong parts as usual. So there was stern input to Tilke to design things this way so that cars could get closer to the car in front prior to the straight so that they could have a better chance at overtaking them either on the straight or the braking zone at its end. Then we have DRS and cars breeze past. Fuckups all round. Welcome to Formula 1. Despite all this,we've had close races and fights for the win. Suzuka was interesting this year. COTA was last year. The track didn't come in the way of racing. Other factors did.

Menebrio > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/25/2013 at 07:30

0

We already have KERS (next year its ERS) and DRS. DRS has to die in my opinion its made passing to artificial since a lot of the pilots will wait till the DRS zone to execute a move (thanks degrading [FIA mandated] Pirellis for that). You can almost always guarantee a passing move in a DRS zone (this is while all other variables like pit-stop strategy, tire wear are kept constant).

stevegravelle > Menebrio 11/02/2013 at 11:05

0

So, there will be DRS under next year's specs? I wasn't sure of that and have been too lazy to look it up. Good point. Now, do we expect current tire specs to remain? Wouldn't this be a good time for FIA to consider moving away from today's tire-centric strategizing, or is it a matter of letting the new formula shake out before making further big changes? (Of course, this would depend on the tire makers, too).

Menebrio > stevegravelle 11/02/2013 at 11:36

1

Here is ScarbsF1 summary of the rule changes:

Front wing reduced front 1800mm to 1650mm wide

Nose tip centered at 185mm high

Front Bulkhead maximum height 525

Chassis height maximum 625mm

Vanity panels still allowed

Engines now 1.6l V6 turbo, Direct injection, fuel flow limited, 15k max RPM

Energy Recovery systems to add +150hp from Kinetic and Turbo harvesting

Race Fuel limited to 100kg

Gearboxes to have 8 forward ratios, those ratios are fixed for the season

Single central exhaust pipe exiting 17-18.5cm behind rear axle line and 300-525mm high

Last 150mm of tail pipe must point 5 degrees upwards

No bodywork behind the tail pipe axis

No lower beam wing

Space still allowed for Y75 winglet (monkey seat)

Top rear wing a little shallower

Minimum weight 690Kg

Also DRS will be banned. Unfortunately Tires will remain in their current degrading guise [sigh]. This will have some tweaks for next year to try and avoid the "publicity stunts" from the British GP. Teams will get a test at the Brazilian GP.

stevegravelle > Menebrio 11/02/2013 at 14:18

0

Thanks for this summary! I'm gonna print it so it's handy next time my F1 geek buddies & I get together.

Corduroy Club. > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 11/02/2013 at 19:27

0

I saw 2 V8 Supercar races at Abu Dhabi and COTA (on tv). I don't think I could bear to watch more than 15 minutes of either, it was a procession of cars. This is compared to the tons of other V8 races I have seen and loved

El_Royo > Menebrio 11/03/2013 at 21:24

0

cota should have had one big banked nascar style corner just as a little nod to american racing. it would have been cool to see an f1 car up on the banking